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Published Sep 23, 21
12 min read

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Well, thanks quite. I intend to provide you all a break for a minute as well as transform to Mr. Swartz. You've been really patient, the 3 of you. I appreciate that extremely much. Usually, we would certainly have had two panels, but we didn't know how the Senate would certainly be running today, so in an initiative to make certain we survived all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you explain in your statement and your declarations that the treaty with Bermuda also pierces financial institution secrecy as well as supplies a device for us getting the details we require. There have actually been some common legal support treaties which contain arrangements relevant straight to sharing financial institution records or various other economic information.

That was a stipulation that was drafted as well as taken on in the context of the E.U.

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Under that provision, stipulation's possible for feasible requesting party asking for seek information look for details whether an account exists in the requested country, nation in the case of situation E.U., one of the requested member statesParticipant Thereafter, the request, if there is a recognition of an account, have to be followed up with a typical shared legal support treaty.

And also with respect to Bermuda, our document of teamwork has been excellent. We believe that the document we have on the manufacturing of records, consisting of bank documents, is such that we are confident that the arrangements included in this mutual lawful aid treaty, which do call for collaboration on the production of documents, will be adequate to ensure that we get the documents we need for our financial investigations as well as other investigations.

Some other MLATs additionally enable for urgent, non-written type demands to be made. It's my understanding that in Bermuda, it should be in written form. Any type of reason that stipulation was not consisted of in this agreement? Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, while it is true that the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty does require requests in written form, it was the judgment of the negotiators that it was sufficient that, in this situation, when it come to Bermuda, we would certainly have the ability to obtain expeditious actions to our requests and likewise offer such responses to Bermuda's demands, especially due to the fact that we have a method already established that will continue, our team believe, under the treaty of being able to share those demands with email or via fax.

Senator Cardin. So was this, primarily, a decision made by U.S. negotiators, that it was not necessary, recognizing just how we can rapidly obtain faxes and e-mails sent out? Is that reasonable sufficient to state, or not? Mr. Johnson. Senator, if I can assist on that one? Senator Cardin. Certain. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda withstood that because they wished to ensure that the demands were clear and also in a much more formal means. But in the settlements, it likewise ended up being clear that they approved that such request could be made by fax or by e-mail. So the real concern they were concerned concerning was not finding a rapid methods to make a demand, however truly just taking dental demands off the table.

We're confident that we've got the methods in location that we can make urgent requests of them in a method that will certainly be effective. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I may add, as a matter of fact, while it is a benefit to be able to make oral requests, in technique, it's very rare that we do so.

Legislator Cardin. Mr. Johnson, do have any kind of comments on the financial institution documents issue? Mr. Johnson.

The difference between having the ability to do a dental request or being able to utilize among these various other very rapid means, we think, is not substantial. Senator Cardin. There've been some problems elevated regarding the competence of Bermuda legislation relative to forfeitures of proceeds and also agencies of criminal offenses.

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Mr. Chairman, we are. The Common Legal Aid Treaty in Post 17 does obligate Bermuda to provide support to the United States in proceedings relating to forfeiture of proceeds and instrumentalities of criminal offense, to the level permitted by the regulation of Bermuda.

We have actually had 2 examples of successful ask for restriction and also loss of assets. Both instances were a success as well as we were able to get the funds. As a basic issue, support is available under the laws of Bermuda, as well as I do believe that is essential to stress and anxiety, when it come to cold, confiscating, as well as limiting possessions, including for issues associating with terrorism and terrorism financing.

It must be noted that loss help is not limited to what is permitted under Bermuda's domestic law. When it come to a UNITED STATE order, Bermuda can not surrender a details instrumentality of nondrug offenses, because that power does not exist locally. Once again, that's limited to agencies in nondrug offense cases.

Senator Cardin. In the Bermuda arrangement, there's a provision that is not unknown to us, where Bermuda can refute teamwork in resources cases.

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Are we hindered as an outcome of that or is there a means in which we are able to cooperate under this treaty, even in those instances? Mr. Chairman, we believe as well as we wish we still would certainly be able to coordinate.

As a matter of fact, we have that experience with other nations that have actually put similar interpretations on the mutual legal support obligations, and also we've been able to function out arrangements in a variety of instances that allow us to acquire proof or talk about whether the evidence is substantial sufficient to go onward with some kind of further actions being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Legislator, if I could simply include in that, among the reasons this treaty took as lengthy it did to discuss and wrap up is due to the fact that it was necessary to us to make certain that there had not been a specific restriction on support in resources cases in the treaty itself.

Swartz associated to you. Which means we believe that helps keep the concept that is essential to us, that such cooperation must be readily available, irrespective of the kind of case. As well as we assume this has likewise borne out with some various other nations, where despite having comparable issues about collaboration in resources cases, they have, for example, been able to give help to the nonpenalty stage of a test or an additional party investigation.

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They do hold the right under this treaty to refute teamwork where the United States criminal justice system is seeking resources punishment? Legislator, they hold the right under the treaty to not provide assistance in situations that are contrary to public plan or their important passions, and also they have told us that they translate that to enable them, in fatality charge cases, to work out that.

I just wanted to make it clear that they would certainly not be an infraction of the treaty. We understand their interpretation, that if there was a situation pending below that we needed their aid, where, plainly, the prosecutors were looking for the fatality penalty, Bermuda could decide not to cooperate under this treaty.

If I can say, Mr. Chairman, significantly, the treaty would need, given that this would be a denial under Short article 3 of the treaty, that initially there had to be examinations with the United States, prior to that rejection might go forward. And I think that's an important facet of the arrangement that Mr.

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Rather than having an explicit provisionSpecific arrangement is one of a set of conditions under which assistance may aid might after refuted, appointment, as well as other amongstVarious other points there must be need to as factor to consider whether assistance can support given, provided to such conditions as the requested country asked for necessaryConsiders

And I assume that would be helpful for us to have that info in this committee. Mr. Swartz. Thank you. foreign tax credit. We would certainly rejoice to supply that. Senator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the simplest job right here, because this agreement was previously authorized by this board. As I claimed in my opening, we accepted it as well late in the 111th Congress for action.

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Have there been any type of significant changes in our investment relationship with Rwanda since last November when you gave testament on this treaty? What we have actually seen considering that last November is an increase in United States financial investment in Rwanda, and I can provide you a couple of examples.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a major resort in Kigali. And, also, Marriott Hotels is entering to help with the nation's expanding hospitality industry. I would say that, offered this pattern of boosted financial investment, that it is crucial that the defenses be afforded for them.

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financiers. Legislator Cardin. I thanks for that (foreign tax credit). You additionally discussed the truth that the United States is discovering various other bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. I think you stated one various other country. I think we have five current reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. Can you just share with us various other countries that the United States has shown rate of interest in working out treaties? Ms.

Senator Cardin. Thank you. I have actually been told by the personnel that I must ask the concern of whether the administration still sustains the Senate passage of the Rwanda treaty, since it was held over from the last Congress. So, for the document? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We certainly do. Senator Cardin.



I think that completes the questioning. We may have some extra questions for the record. As you understand, the document remains open for 1 day, so you obtain a break. That's a quite quick turn-around time for this board. I do appreciate your patience with the committee as well as thank you very much for your testament today.

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Solution. As laid out below, we would certainly such as to offer updated info on reported U.S. investment task in Rwanda. Various other than these updates, the answers supplied by the Division's witness in the 111th Congress stay exact. In 2009, the stock of U.S. foreign straight financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).

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And also I think that would be helpful for us to have that details in this committee. Mr. Swartz. Thanks. We 'd be glad to provide that. Senator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the simplest task right here, considering that this arrangement was previously authorized by this board. As I said in my opening, we approved it as well late in the 111th Congress for activity.

Have there been any considerable changes in our financial investment connection with Rwanda given that last November when you provided statement on this treaty? What we have actually seen since last November is an increase in United States financial investment in Rwanda, and also I can give you a couple of examples.

Also, in February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open a major resort in Kigali. And also, additionally, Marriott Hotels is entering to facilitate the nation's expanding hospitality market. I would say that, offered this pattern of increased financial investment, that it is crucial that the defenses be afforded for them.

investors. Senator Cardin (foreign tax credit). I thanks for that. You likewise discussed the fact that the United States is discovering various other bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. I think you discussed one other nation. I think we have 5 present bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. Can you just share with us other countries that the United States has shown interest in working out treaties? Ms.

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Senator Cardin. Thanks. I've been informed by the personnel that I should ask the concern of whether the administration still sustains the Senate approval of the Rwanda treaty, given that it was held over from the last Congress. For the record? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We certainly do. Senator Cardin.

I think that finishes the examining. We may have some added inquiries for the record. As you recognize, the record remains open for 24-hour, so you get a break. That's a rather rapid turn-around time for this committee. But I do appreciate your patience with the board as well as thanks significantly for your testimony today.

As established out below, we would certainly such as to offer upgraded details on reported UNITED STATE financial investment activity in Rwanda. In 2009, the stock of UNITED STATE foreign straight investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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